Why a compressed natural gas plug-in electric hybrid makes sense

Good article John. It demonstrates a very viable logical progression on the road to zero auto exhaust emissions. Thanks for the mention...

Looks like Toyota took a look at this application back in 08' http://gas2.org/2008/09/24/toyota-looks-to-embrace-natural-gas-hybrid-cars/

Today's plugin buyer is different than the initial affluent early-adopters. For today's buyers, it is less about being green and more about saving money.

There are positives and negatives with the writer's stated idea. They base their source for compressed natural gas (cng, ch4) from fossil sources. But little cng is from the U.S., and mostly from our friendly neighbors to the north (Canada) and south (Mexico). All N. American sources, destructive fracking is used (injection into the ground to release more hydrocarbons).

Like hydrogen (h2) cars, their h2 is made/reformed from ch4 (but no one is saying what happens to the gunk left over after the h2 extraction). Like gasoline, cng is subject to the ups and downs of the market. Whereas electricity is stabel and cheap.

There are time honored ways to generate ch4 from bio-sources, but it needs to have the fat cat$ invest in that to make it happen. That will likely not happen without social pressure as ch4 from fossil sources is cheaper than making ch4 from bio-sources.

The cost of ch4 fuel per mile fairly close to gasoline when ch4's 70% energy density is factored in. The real gain is that ch4 is so much more clean compared to other fuels, oil and filter changes don't need to be as often, and the engine (ice) last much longer (less gunk = less friction = less wear).

The writer mentioned using existing phev/pih that use a gasoline ice (suggesting convert to use cng).
I suggest that to really do this right, take a note from the Russian's who's original idea for their 'yo' pih was a diesel ice, that had two fuels tanks. Thus the 'yo' could run off either: electricity, diesel, or cng.

The biggest killer to getting automakers to produce EVs, or cng vehicles, is because they are so clean. A clean ice, wears less = needs less replacement parts, thus the automaker makes less profit on selling replacement parts.

I applaud the writer's idea to also offer cng plugins, along with other plugins, but I strongly suggest that a diesel ice be used so it can run either cng or diesel. And lets offer the buyer the option to bump up the electric-range to something more real, like 50 miles.
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Great idea!
Do it!!!!!

Growing up in Huntington Beach Ca., we had a gas and oil well on the grounds of my High-school.
In most cases the region's residual gas was burned off. There was no market for it. In later life we had a natural gas well on a neighboring acreage in Briceland, Ca. It was utilized to heat and power the town of Briceland in pre-grid days.

Much of the United States was without grid power prior to the Farm Act of the 1940's; following W.W.2.
Many farms and small town relied on gas as their primary energy fuel source.

None of this " natural" gas was forced from the earth by fracking. Let's do it...

The reason hybridisatiion has caught on is because petrol is more expensive than in the 'good old days'.
Hybridisation costs money, so since natural gas is cheap, the cost benefit ratios don't work.
There may also be some space considerations, as the NG tanks are bulky.
That would apply more to any schemes to make a hybrid plug in though, as batteries are also bulky.

Aha. You're right. Very good point. I still think it would be a good seller due to the green aspect of the design. Also right about the tanks. I have not ben there in a while, but I used to visit Japan and they had Nat Gas taxis. The tank was in the trunk.

Actually, new methods for making CNG tanks allow them to be shaped and formed just as gasoline tanks are. LPG is just a byproduct of NG extraction, btw, and is actually more likely to come from cracked crude oil or fracked NG. LPG also settles to the ground when it leaks, creating a "puddle" effect of highly flammable fuel whereas CNG disspates in air when it decompresses. CNG is also easier to transport in pipelines and such whereas LPG is usually transported by tractor-trailer, but is easier to store. The two, like any other fuel, have their drawbacks and high points.

Your analysis of the ROI is good, though. One advantage of CNG is that it can also be used to create H2 for fuel cells or power a fuel cell itself. That would eliminate the need for a combustion engine altogether.

The point about LPG which is germane is that it is far more energy dense than NG and does not require a high pressure tank.

If you are making the tank for CNG in some rather more exotic shape than a cylinder or similar then the costs increase due to the extra materials needed to maintain integrity.

I think the way forward is fuel cells, as you outline, in partnership with batteries, taking over where the energy density/cold and hot weather performance of batteries lag.

I have been thinking about a cng plug in hybrid for awhile. I thought the only way to do this was to takea plug in hybrid and convert the gas engine to a cng engine

In California the government price supports to the all-electric Leaf buyer and to the manufacturer are now well over 50% of the “price” of the Leaf. The customer's buy-price is about $11,500 for one.

Is this correct? $11,500 for a brand new Leaf in California? How's the math work here?

In the big cities of Spain, there are many taxis that are Toyota Prius hybrid converted to LPG. It really works. I recently took one at Madrid's airport and it run on LPG in the motorway, then electric in the city's centre traffic jam.

The demands of electric vehicles are increasing in different countries. Due to its beneficial features and specification, people are starting using electric cars; but the common problems with electric cars are charging systems, and due to lack of charging stations most of the electric vehicle owners are facing problems. Therefore, different types of new advanced features are introducing day by day to deal with these problems.

Great article and great idea! Here in sweden we use "biogas" which is made from household waste. It powers all gas-cars and also the buses in Linköping, my home town. This is another great argument for gas-electric hybrids.