Why Gen 1 Toyota Prius Is Hands Down Better Than Either Generation Of Nissan Leaf

Great advice you give...thanks

...now if I can just figure which used Prius model, version, generation, configuration, with which options, etc.... I need to buy for $ 6000 to $8000 ...so I can be safe in knowing I have the right one for me...

After a decade of enjoyable driving in my Honda Insight...I am now faced with a very confusing market of mind-bending options... a gagle of electronic alterations and adjustments to the original concept ???

I Want to make a decision and start tracking down the right vehicle ??...I can't develope an adequate criteria !!??

I figure the latest one is likely to be the best one but the price is punitive and a new better version is right around the corner and in the future we may find it is the one with major flaws !!??

So back to the slightly used market with so many options...

You need to write the book : Title : " Which used Prius (or electric/hybride car) do I buy and Which one do I run away from, and Why ??

I've been driving a LEAF since 2013 and would recommend a used LEAF as the ideal commuting vehicle to almost anyone. The notes in the manual are hints to basically eliminate loss of battery capacity, but guess what happens if you just drive it and charge it with a 6kW charger? A 2013 LEAF will be at 92% of original capacity.

Thanks for the advanced insight on the issues involved...

I am very encouraged by this technology...but there have been battery issues since the first Honda Insight in 2000 after 20 years they should have the battery issues sorted out by now...I like the concept of cooling and warming the battery to improve the state of charge and extend the batteries life...also it is good that the individual battery components can be replaced instead of the entire battery...

Also,
need to find a way to isolate these vehicles into" for sale by owner, only" ...not always comfortable with used cars from used car dealerships...

thanks again, Ron in Michigan

First off, way to completely overblow the battery degradation issues of Nissan leafs. I recently test drove a 2011 that had 80k miles on it, had been exclusively quick charged, and had the factory battery pack; it still had %87 of its rated capacity left. And this is in the Midwest, where winters can easily go to -30°F and summers can get into triple digits. Furthermore, you've literally advocated for the use of a battery technology that is known to lose capacity (sometimes very quickly!) when taking a charge after a partial discharge.

Another issue is that you advise the use of trickle charging. Yes, charging generates heat; that is not up for debate. However, the trickle charger is spec'd to have an efficiency around %75; meanwhile, the average Level 2 charger has an efficiency around %85. So you're quite literally advocating for wasting electricity there. While we're on the topic of charging, has it never occurred to you that the rate of charge will slow when battery temps get high? This is required for ALL battery technologies; otherwise it doesn't matter if it's Li-Ion or NiMh, that battery WILL go up in flames. And while we're on the topic of battery temps; if a battery is heating up during discharge to the same level as when charging, then heat is the least damaging thing going on because you're pulling WAY too much current from the battery and THAT is what's damaging the cells.

And lastly, don't understate the practical range capabilities of any vehicle. Saying that a leaf is only good for grocery runs or "visit the grand kids (next door)". Even out in middle-of-nowhere Wyoming, your "next door" neighbor will be less than 40 miles drive away (even if you get lost trying to find them); that's easily attainable for a car with around 84 miles of range. And given the fact that over %90 of people commute less than 100 miles one-way, I'd say a gen-1 leaf would likely work for most people as a commuter car.

And that's not even mentioning that a taller person like myself may find the Prius hard to get in and out of the driver's seat. I know the 2015 Prius I test drove was a nightmare for me, and I'm only 6' 3".

Lastly, let me just put some cost numbers here for ya. To make a Prius cost competitive with a leaf using my current electrical rate, gas would have to cost less than $1.40/gal, assuming the Prius gets 60mpg (rounding up the 2018's numbers) at the absolute worst. Now, I don't know how much it costs where you are, but the cheapest gas within 100 miles of me is $2.64 (93 miles away, thank you very much)... quite a far cry from the $1.40 to make a Prius competitive.

I've had a 2015 leaf for 3 years now. Bought it used for $11k out the door with just over 10k miles. Battery health guage still showed 12/12 cells. After 3 years of commuting and running errands in it, I've put on 38k miles and have lost one cell on the health meter. The noticeable difference was a loss of maybe 5 miles of range. Still it is my favorite commuter vehicle I've ever had. (We do also have a 2013 prius plug-in)...

I say commuter vehicle, because that is all I need it to be. I have a roughly 35 mile commute (70 miles total). My battery hasn't degraded much but I think it is due to the fact that I charge on 110v 95% of the time.

I wake up to a full battery (~80m range), drive to work (~45m left), and charge at work for free on 110. By lunchtime, after 4 hours, I've got 55-60m charged, so I can easily make an extended lunch run. By the end of the work day, im usually at 90-95% capacity which is right where I want to be. I drive home with enough juice to run more errands if I so desire. When I get home, I plug it in and relish in the off-peak-hour energy prices. Even if I get home at 11 pm or 12 midnight with only 10% of the charge left, My car is usually at 80-90% by around 8-30 or 9 am. (I tend to work between 10-6).

I live in Utah with 20 degree winters and 100 degree summers. I have noticed it drives fine in the heat of summer with modest AC (enough to be pleasant, but not freezing) with very little change in range. During winter, blasting the heater to be comfy can easily chew through battery, so I am a bit more conservative with my driving during winter months. Oddly enough, the seat heaters and the heated steering wheel (such a good feature) dont seem to eat much range.

My solution to be comfy during the coldest winter commutes is have steering wheel heater and seat heater on high, and to wear a hoodie, and I'm set.

I know this isnt a perfect vehicle for all occasions, for any otger driving demands, we have a prius. However for my commute, its the leaf all the way.

Fun-wise, even the old leaf has a very fast 0-40 accelleration compared to most commuter cars. It is like driving a go kart. Visibility-wise, it sits higher than our prius and the windows are taller, plus the rear window isn't cut in two like the prius. Overall I think its a better 360 degree view than our prius. The back up cams in both our cars are practically identical.

Cost wise... here's the kicker. Average energy cost where I live is 10.31 cents per kwh. My car has a 24 kwh battery. Assuming a 30% loss due to inefficiency, meaning I'd need to charge about 31.2 kwh, it costs $3.22 to get a 100% charge. I charge about 40% at work, so really it costs me about $1.93 for every 24kwh. On a full 24 kwh, I can drive about 80m. Cost for a gallon of gas where I live is about $2.50. For the cost of 1 gallon of gas, I get about 31 kwh on average between work and home, and that gets me about 103 miles. 103 miles for the price of a gallon. Thats being highly conservative, because i know my charging isnt only 70% efficient, and the cost of gas is typically around 2.9 to >3 per gallon here.

Overall, with my current commute, I will drive about 17500 miles in one year. With my leaf fuel economy, I will pay the equivalent of 170 gallons of gas at $2.50 per gallon. My prius gets (with brand new low-rolling-friction tires and a recent alignment) gets 51 mpg. On that same commute with the prius, I would buy 343 gallons - a difference of 173 gallons.

That is a baseline savings of $433 in one year, but i would have done 2 full synthetic oil changes in my prius for $90 each during that time, so its a baseline of $613 saved in one year (over a prius and assuming a gas price of $2.50)... technically we have solar panels and our energy bill is $8/month (the cost to stay connected to the utility)... but I wont get in to that.

Overall, I know its not the best car, but for commuting, it is perfect...

I've run a 2011 Nissan Leaf here in Montana for five years. It is extremely reliable and cheaper than ANY Prius to operate and maintain. Terrible range, yes, but it's fine for a commuter car.

I should mention to Mr. Neilson that I have never had to purchase any "BG hybrid" products to stop the insane Prius gen 2 oil consumption. Nor have I ever had to perform a synthetic oil change or change the spark plugs. While the Gen 1 Leaf has terrible range, most everything about a full EV is better than a Prius.