Follow us today...
If you talk to anyone who has been a die-hard Apple user since the inception of the iPhone, you will come to learn something about them. Apple is the end-all of smartphone technology. Android users disagree entirely with that, claiming that Android-based phones are far superior, giving them more customization and features.
While that debate will rage on eternally, another fight is happening in a different technological realm, automotive. It is the battle over the electric car and the technology surrounding it, particularly battery technology.
If you have ever met a Tesla fan, you will know they are like Apple users, and many of them probably are. They admire the hard work and thought put into the Tesla vehicles by co-founder Elon Musk. They look at him as some form of tech leader that has graced their every waking moment with the hope of a better future.
The thing with Tesla owners is they are very rooted in everything about the company. They are the early adopters and will be Tesla owners for the rest of their lives, just like Apple users.
So what happens when something else comes out to challenge the status quo? What happens when another car company comes out with something that is ultimately better? We are entering a time in history where we see this happen right before our eyes. Most just do not understand it, though.
Toyota And Tesla the Apple/Android Of The Car World
Toyota motor has been around for decades longer than Tesla. Hailed often as a premium car company, Toyota is a brand that people know and trust. In my opinion, they are more like Apple, while Tesla is more like Android.
Update: After today's decision by the Japanese government Toyota has no choice but to follow Tesla or chart its own EV path.
Some of you may say this is total heresy, but hear me out. Toyota started the real EV revolution back before GM killed the EV-1. Hybrids are synonymous with Prius, just as electric cars are with Tesla. Apple gave us the first real smartphone. No, your lame Blackberry does not count. Toyota gave us the first real hybrid, which is part EV.
When Tesla entered the scene, electric cars were a neat idea, but most people thought it would fail, based on what GM had done. To me, it was like Android first starting out. Competing in a new and mostly uncharted space with competition from more prominent car companies that overlooked it.
Android, now like Tesla, has become a significant player in the market with many different Android OS brands. Apple, on the other hand, is still playing the iPhone game and sticking to it. Like Toyota, with the hybridization of their fleet, they rely on hybrids to rule the empire. All the time, watching what Tesla is doing and waiting for the opportune moment to strike, and strike hard.
Toyota And The Solid State Battery Revolution
Tesla battery day, in my eyes, was a huge success. Gaining a 56% increase in overall vehicle efficiency is absolutely astounding. Better batteries that cost less to produce and are less harmful to the environment are significant steps in complete EV adoption in the next 10 years.
As neat as battery day was for Tesla and all the fanboys (and girls), it is nothing compared to Toyota's announcement. The solid-state battery that Toyota promises to bring out next year will wipe the floor with Tesla battery tech.
Think about it. A battery that can fully charge in 10 minutes go farther is safer and better for the environment is a total no-brainer. It will destroy everything about lithium tech, no question. If there was ever a time in history where an EV revolution would take over on a massive scale, the time is now.
Tesla currently cannot produce more than 3% of what Toyota does, which also means once Toyota is at its production level, Tesla better hope they have a prayer and a fan base that will stay with them.
Why Toyota Will Succeed
I have been around many different Tesla models. I have been around many different Toyota models. Here is what I can tell you from not only my experience but that of others.
Toyota builds a better vehicle. Is Toyota a perfect car company? No, that does not exist. There are many things about Toyota that I wish were different. However, when it comes to longevity, Toyota builds a vehicle that lasts. The attention to detail with Tesla over the paint, weatherstripping, and car construction is somewhat lacking, a lot.
It is not to say that Tesla cannot build a vehicle; they simply need more time to refine their process and dial the cars in. Toyota will succeed because they have been in the game for longer than Tesla. Toyota knows the market better and has more established manufacturing facilities.
Toyota has loyal engineers and decades of research and development. Tesla does not have the resources that Toyota does and may not for quite a few more years.
Toyota will succeed because they are incredibly strategic. No move is ever made in the Toyota realm without serious time spent researching and doing a cost-benefit analysis. They are the Sensei to the Tesla apprentice.
Conclusion
When it comes to building a vehicle, I will buy a Toyota over a Tesla for the quality factor. If I plan on spending $40,000 or more on a new car, I want it to last. I think Tesla is going in the right direction but is not there yet. No one even knows why their company value is so high when they cannot even turn profits regularly.
Toyota is a company that does not do anything until they know for sure it will work. Toyota went longer than every other manufacturer before putting Lithium-Ion batteries in their hybrids. Why? Toyota believed it was not developed enough yet.
Thinking on that idea, Toyota is now rolling out a solid-state battery. This bit of knowledge tells me that Toyota has been researching this for years and kept it under wraps. They are ready to present the world with the next big thing in transportation.
Tesla may be the first car to be synonymous with EV, but Toyota is the wise Sensei who keeps showing the apprentice new things.
Until next time! Have a pleasant holiday and stay safe out there. Check out what is happening to Honda Element Owners
Check out this wild new battery tech that Tesla has and why it will forever change the auto industry.
Peter Neilson is an automotive consultant specializing in electric cars and hybrid battery technologies. He holds a Bachelor of Science in Automotive Service Technology from Weber State University. Peter can be reached on Linkedin and you can tweet him at The_hybrid_guy on Twitter. Find his page on Facebook at Certified Auto Consulting. Read more of Peter's stories at Toyota news coverage on Torque News. Search Toyota Prius Torque News for more in depth Prius coverage from our reporters.
Follow us today...
Comments
Peter, toyota is a great
Permalink
Peter, toyota is a great automotive company, but are completely unproven in battery manufacturing company. Bringing a great new battery technology to market is a lot more difficult than you think. I know little about batteries.....but I do know flash memory. For the last 20 years there has always been a dozen reasons why flash memory was limited in capabilities and would not scale....and there were dozens of new memory technologies that were deemed far superior and would soon be on the market cheaper, faster, and more scalable....but had never been proven in mass production. Same goes for batteries. For the last 20 years there has always been another new battery tech that is better, faster, cheaper than lithium ion....but have never been proven in mass production. I have learned my lesson and am betting on the contued dominance of tesla and it's market leading lithium ion batteries and it's growing expertise in manufacturing them on giga scale. Electric cars are all about the batteries....and here tesla is the proven leader....not toyota
WOW you thirsty AF for some
Permalink
WOW you thirsty AF for some Toyota luvin. The apprentice has surely surpassed the sensei at this point. While Toyota was sitting on their hands making boring vehicles Tesla learned how to paint a car, install body panels and build an all around premium vehicle. Lets see if Toyota has learned how to scale up battery production(of a brand new architecture), write software or design over the air updates. Stay thirsty my friends.
Luca, Toyota made 3 battery
Permalink
In reply to WOW you thirsty AF for some by Luca (not verified)
Luca, Toyota made 3 battery deals last year. It shouldn't be long before they meet demand for their electrified vehicles, which is where they can make the most money with a limited battery supply. They'll ease into the EV market in due time. The Enform system in my 2020 Lexus ES 350 receives OTA software updates. I'd prefer sensitive software updates to only be available at dealerships to prevent hacking.
Right now, Toyota should be focusing on expanding the Prime line to midsize sedans, larger SUV's, and trucks. That includes a few Lexus vehicles. They'll need a lot of batteries, of course. Fortunately, PHEV's only require batteries 1/4 the size of the typical EV battery.
There's no such thing as being too late to the party when it comes to auto manufacturing. Hyundai/Kia proved that. Look at all the problems they had in the beginning and look at them now. You don't have to be the best. You just need to offer a decent vehicle at a reasonable price while improving your reputation to gain market share.
isn't toyota partnering with
Permalink
In reply to WOW you thirsty AF for some by Luca (not verified)
isn't toyota partnering with Panasonic for solid state battery development? the same panasonic that supplies battery for Tesla cars
So what are the specs for
Permalink
So what are the specs for these Toyota vehicles? When could I buy one and for how much?
How many will be produced?
How does charging work and what will it cost?
And I want extensive details on the batteries.
It all seems very vague right now.
Keep us informed of any progress.
Solid state batteries are
Permalink
Solid state batteries are vapor ware, they aren't yet commercially viable. It will be great when they are, but I think this is just a publicity stunt for toyota. I don't own either, but this article seems loaded with toyota fanboi bias.
Yeah, PR is definitely the
Permalink
In reply to Solid state batteries are by Brian (not verified)
Yeah, PR is definitely the main factor here. Toyota and others made the mistake of betting on the wrong horse for way too long (hydrogen fuel cell) and spent way too much money on that dead end (not that there aren't valid purposes for HFC, like long distance trucking) and so are playing catch up.
I remember hearing about this actually more than a year ago, that Toyota would have a solid state battery powered car by 2023, which I applaud if they can make it happen and for a price that is sensible. But it's possible that by the time they get it to market lithium battery formulations will already have improved enough to make lithium batteries, if not better than solid state, then cheaper by a long way making EVs on par with ICE vehicles in price if not similar in "fill up" times. We'll see.
2 years to market say the
Permalink
In reply to Solid state batteries are by Brian (not verified)
2 years to market say the industry insiders. even if that's 3 years I wouldn't call that vaporware. The growing needles problem has been solved. Now it's just a scaling challenge, and nobody has overcome such challenges is such little time as tesla.
And Toyota doesn’t have a 55
Permalink
And Toyota doesn’t have a 55 billion dollar millstone hanging around its neck
I'd really have to argue that
Permalink
I'd really have to argue that Tesla is like apple.
Smartphones, yes blackberries were out and "smart" for their time.
There were also Palm and Samsung windows smart phones.
They all had severe compromises.
Then came along Apple Iphone. Initially it had massive limitations. No 3g, no MMS (still can't believe this). Then as things progressed they continued their closed wall ecosystem.
The iphone sold because 1 it's beauty and 2 itunes.
Just like Tesla sells it's beauty (have you seen toyota cars??) And it's Supercharger ecosystem.
Other manufacturers are like Android. They use 3rd party chargers versus their own. Just like Android phones use 3rd party software and no chargers rather than in house.
If this holds true, then all others will become 90% of the market and Tesla will have 10-20% just like apple is losing phone share.
Who knows. Legacy automakers have years of pension costs for each vehicle whereas Tesla avoids those costs.
And Toyota doesn’t have a 55
Permalink
And Toyota doesn’t have a 55 billion dollar millstone hanging around its neck
Why Toyota solid state
Permalink
Why Toyota solid state battery when Toyota has hydrogen. Oh yes, because they are an equivalent, vaporware. That's a techy term, by the way, one that Tesla enthusiasts understand completely and ICE enthusiasts are lost with. You understand, right?
I stopped reading here,
Permalink
I stopped reading here, “Apple gave us the first real smartphone. No, your lame Blackberry does not count. Toyota gave us the first real hybrid, which is part EV.”
Apple gave us the first real smartphone. No, your lame Blackberry does not count. Toyota gave us the first real hybrid, which is part EV.
The lame bb doesn’t count, but the lame hybrid does? Dude is blind to his own logic.
Hey Toyota boy, Tesla is a
Permalink
Hey Toyota boy, Tesla is a technology platform. Enough already! The only thing legacy carmakers can ever update is their infotainment screen.
This article is obviously
Permalink
This article is obviously from someone who doesn't understand the segment. Just another clickbait piece about another "Tesla-killer". I wish there was more accuracy and less sensationalism and opinion fluff.
The thinking might be right,
Permalink
The thinking might be right, but the writing is lousy. Apple & Android analogy is lame & lazy. Go back to school.
Agree! The writing is lousy
Permalink
In reply to The thinking might be right, by Kirby (not verified)
Agree! The writing is lousy
Disagree! The thinking is lousy, too.
The only thing this “journalist” achieved was punching up his algorithms by inciting a fair number of reasonable thinkers to waste time and reply!!
So you (the author) just
Permalink
So you (the author) just simply believe when Toyota announces they will have a functioning solid state battery. I will politely say that you are naive. You need to do a little research on battery technology and development. You will find out that solid state is a holy grail of batteries and has eluded researchers for years. And you also assume that Tesla whose whole existence is based on batteries somehow got outmaneuvered by this sleeping giant whose CEO keeps embarrassing himself stating that EVs are not really what people want. And finaly, you completely disregard Tesla's lead in software (OTA updates) and autonomous driving. Once again - you are so naive. Or blind. Toyota is slowly dying - they just dont know it yet. And the only thing that could save them actually is something absolutely revolutionary like SS batteries - it just is very unlikely that this technology would come from them. But a rumour like that sure makes them look good. But just remember - the proverbial Tesla killer has been coming for years now and somehow it is yet to show up. Oh, and about your numbers - Toyota's annual sales are around 10 ml and Teslas around 0.5 ml so it is more like 5 percent and the next year it will be 10 percent. And 2022 is looking to be interesting when Berlin and Austin are at full capacity. Even if we believe the SS battery tale from Toyota - by the time they are able to produce it in any meaningful numbers Tesla is going to be probably making just as many vehicles as they do. And by then it may simply be to lake as in that time Tesla will not only have numbers but their technology will be that many years better. And if we assume that Toyota will eventually somehow deliver the elusive SS batery - we may also assume that Tesla will deliver equally elusive FSD. (Well, FSD is likely a lot less elusive as it is already existing in somewhat early and limited form) And who do you think will have a better product by then? Your article assumes it is true, it assumes it will be mass produced shortly, and it assumes Tesla is standing still. Really?
Two things- Toyoda the person
Permalink
Two things- Toyoda the person hates EVs and thinks they are a dead end. Without a corporate commitment to change, Toyota the company will get left in the dust. (Honda has the same issue).
Second, there are several companies about to bring solid state batteries to market, and I suspect that Tesla will have one in their vehicles, one way or another.
The thinking might be right,
Permalink
The thinking might be right, but the writing is lousy. Apple & Android analogy is lame & lazy. Go back to school.
Do you really think that
Permalink
Do you really think that Tesla couldn’t figure out solid state batteries? They have the beat battery engineers in the world and I guarantee there are issues with solid state - otherwise Tesla would have them. They have been focused on batteries hard for for a decade.
10 minutes? To charge a 200
Permalink
10 minutes? To charge a 200 kw battery? That would mean the charging station is a 1.2 mw charger. Do those even exist? If the battery capacity is larger then it would be 6x that capacity to charge in 10 minutes.
So it might be capable of charging that fast, but the chance it will be charging for hours on a slow charger, vs ever charging on a 1 or 2 mw charger are much greater. It's not like you are going to spend 10s of thousands to put one in at your house.
To use your analogy, this is like 5g, right now 4g lte is faster, and everywhere, 5g is better if you can find it, but most people can't.
If Toyota has this super
Permalink
If Toyota has this super battery, then why aren't they using it in their hybrids? You know the reason. It costs too much. I think Toyota will lose money on every battery electric car they sell.
As a former product line
Permalink
As a former product line manager I know that most anything is doable in a lab environment. How the product behaves in real life customer environments is critical to success. The trade offs of which bugs to fix before and after general availability, etc.
One important lesson I learned was with any knew product, makes the legacies features are preserved along with the new features.
Toyota has had quality issues of late, not as bad a Honda, but, it shows how quickly you can fall from grace.
The market had never has never seen automobiles as safe as a Tesla (5 star ratings across the board). Would I trade some manufacturing issues for superior safety (?), you betcha.
Furthermore, what are the legacy automakers going to do with their dealership networks if there is zero maintenance revenue?
The legacy automakers have several Mark's against them, planned product obsolescence and crooked dealership networks that have been abusing customers for decades.
Given the choice I will never go through a dealership ever again, cut out the middle man.
With Tesla I can go direct to get a vehicle, financing and auto insurance under one roof, it will be cheaper, smarter and a competitive advantage.
100% correct!
Permalink
In reply to As a former product line by Richard (not verified)
100% correct!
Toyota does not ANNOUNCE
Permalink
Toyota does not ANNOUNCE anything until it is basically ready for production. Keep your eyes on this development, because it's not a smokescreen. Source: I'm literally a Senior Engineer for Toyota's Engine Division.
And a Subaru fan, too! ;)
Permalink
In reply to Toyota does not ANNOUNCE by Subyfan (not verified)
And a Subaru fan, too! ;)
But I agree that Toyota dies not announce vaporware. It's not their style, generally. But they have a long uphill battle after betting on the ill-fated hydrogen fuel cell camp for FAR too long (Toyota and Honda have been trying to get that one going for more than 10 years with very little success, even though HFC tech has been around since at least the days of the Apollo space craft in the 1960s).
I wish them well though. If they can actually release a SS car by 2023 (not 2021 as this article says) and at a price point that people will pay, then I will be suitably impressed.
This article is very
Permalink
This article is very subjective with no supporting substance. Did you ever ask yourself why Toyota is the only one that did not support BEV? Why have they been so stubborn with failing business case of hydrogen? They could, by they did not want to complete in BEV space. Why it that? The main reason is that they did not have any competitive advantage and they very well know that they will not be able to compete in this space against Chinese companies. They needed quantitative differentiation against predominantly Chinese companies. If they have solid state battery (which they do not have), they will be able to become front runner, at least on a paper. But without no working solid state battery pack, they are years behind Tesla and other like VW who have already leading this space. Main reason to publish information about solid state battery is to buy some time that will help them to continue to sell old ICE vehicles. I regards to having 20+ years of strong engineering, that is past tense. It is more and more obvious that engineering of future vehicles will follow similar steps of IT, where skills become dormant after 3 years.
This article is comical.
Permalink
This article is comical. While it may be concentrating on some real facts the bias against Tesla outweighs any real merit of news gathering it may have hoped to provide.
If Tesla continues its present trajectory it could own Ford within 1 year and GM within 3-4.
Apple is also a leader in battery tech as is Tesla, Toyota has much work to do to catch up. With Tesla’s capitalization and infrastructure prowess in EVs they will be hard to catch.
Maybe the author should tell us about how Microsoft is going to unseat Apple’s device market with the surface pro. How do use are better doesn’t mean that they will succeed in the marketplace. Apple and Tesla are masters of brand loyalty and customer culture. Toyota has this too but they continue to rely on old tried and true tech, wrapped in new shiny packaging, to keep the customer base loyal. At some point innovation has to come. Risk taking is not part of the Japanese culture, efficiency and reliability are the hallmarks of Toyota.
IMHO
Permalink
IMHO
Your comparison missed an important point. Tesla is not about car. For Tesla with Elon is about energy and software tech. Car is just one of the proving grounds for alternative energy with their software tech.
I don’t own a Tesla (yet). What Tesla is doing over and above is bringing together people and governments to rethink about the world from the perspective of individual’s impact.
Tesla build a better foundation / platform that allow for individual contribution towards alleviating the environmental issue and expediting the tech to harness the most abundant energy, the sun. The sun is by far the cheapest and safest source of energy.
Thanks,