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Many EVangelists have nothing good to say about plug-in hybrid-electric vehicles (PHEVs) like the new Toyota RAV4 Prime AWD crossover. For these purists, a PHEV seems like some kind of a trick or compliance vehicle aimed at avoiding or delaying the “inevitable” switch to battery-electric vehicles. For other green vehicle owners, a PHEV like the RAV4 Prime is the perfect vehicle to meet their requirements.
Related Story: Consumer Reports Suggests Toyota RAV4 Prime As Alternative to the Tesla Model Y
The RAV4 Prime is a hot vehicle right now. Toyota cannot keep pace with consumer demand, and dealers are happily selling any RAV4 Prime they are lucky enough to get immediately upon its delivery to the lot. Some dealers are even charging above MSRP and finding willing buyers. We have been tracking RAV4 Prime owners’ progress from fan, to shopper, to new owner, to veteran owner on various forums and Facebook groups. What quickly became apparent was that many of the new RAV4 Prime owners are also current or former Tesla owners. We asked them if they would explain why a Tesla owner buys a plug-in hybrid Toyota.
Related Story: Toyota Delivered More RAV4 Primes In First 9 Weeks Than Tesla Did Model 3, X, or S
Top Reason Tesla Owners Buy a Toyota RAV4 Prime– Unlimited Range
While PHEVs only have a limited all-electric range, 42 miles in the case of the RAV4 Prime, they have unlimited mileage in the sense that they carry enough liquid fuel to go 600 miles or more before stopping for energy. And when they do stop, they can either grab electrons if time and charging ports permit, or they can stop for a few moments on any corner and add back another 500 miles or more in energy. The hassles and limited range associated with Tesla BEVs are a big reason many of these green vehicle owners say they opted for the RAV4 Prime. Here are their own words:
- We still have our Model 3 and prefer it on trips. But it is only fair as a tow vehicle as the range stinks, and charging is a pain when towing. And to boot, most National Parks have no electric. So when we are towing, the RAV4 Prime is a clear winner. D.H.
- The Prime would be for my wife and family long road trips. It may be a long time before EV’s are practical for long family road trips during busy holiday seasons. B.C.
- While BEVs have made great progress in the last ten years, they are still not there yet when it comes to long-distance travel or at parity with ICE vehicles when it comes to range, charging infrastructure, or just plain old convenience. BEVs are our 95% car, but when it comes to long-distance travel, nothing beats an ICE. A PHEV like the Prime is a great compromise for that part of our travel. G.L.
- Traded the Model 3 because I wanted one vehicle that could go on longer road trips without stopping every 2 hrs. C.W.
- Have had a Tesla Model S for two years now, and I love it. Not a perfect car, but it’s nice not to have to pay for gas and associated maintenance. Plus, it’s dead sexy. That said, we like having a RAV4 Prime for longer trips. J.J.
Second Reason Tesla Owners Buy a Toyota RAV4 Prime - Towing
While not a vehicle that aimed at towing, the RAV4 Prime is used by many owners for towing. It’s rated at 2,500 pounds. Many owners use the tow hitch for other purposes, most commonly to hold a multi-bike rack. In addition to D.H. above, who lists towing as a second reason to own both a Tesla and also a RAV4 Prime, C.W added, “Backcountry camping with tow capability was an extra plus. I do 99% of in-town miles in EV. Nice to do everything with one car.”
Some Tesla Owners Are Waiting For a More Perfect BEV and Own a RAV4 Prime Now
Ask many Tesla and RAV4 Prime owners why they bought a PHEV this year, and they will tell you that for them, there is no perfect BEV yet. One such owner of both technologies is James Klafehn. Mr. Klafehn is a former owner of both a Tesla Model X and a rare 2014 RAV4 EV. His experiences with the Model X were so negative he created a Youtube series on the topic. Quality problems, difficulty modifying and servicing the Tesla, lousy towing range, and a long list of other reasons pushed him from the brand and back into the arms of Toyota. Mr. Klafehn is now the founder and administrator of a popular RAV4 Prime club. So you’d expect that he has no plans to ever return to Tesla. But that’s not the case. Mr. Klafehn thinks that Tesla needs about five more years to sort out its quality SNAFUs, and he says, “I’ll buy the Cybertruck next as long as Tesla improves their quality and service.”
One owner, K.V., posted this overview of why he owns both a RAV4 Prime and why he opted not to purchase a second Tesla: “We have Model 3 AWD + RAV4 Prime in our household. Originally the RAV4 prime was supposed to be a Model Y, But I had bad customer service experiences with Tesla sc (more than one occasion) and felt it was too risky to be locked in with Tesla for 2 cars. I love the TNGA,TQM, PHEV combo from Toyota. Especially the reliability part. Was equally impressed with Tesla tech, FSD and full EV blast of a performance. So, Rav Prime is the workhorse/ road-trip car.”
Related Story: Toyota RAV4 Prime vs. Tesla Model Y Maintenance Cost Analysis - A Surprising Outcome
H.D. is currently shopping for a RAV4 Prime. He has both a Toyota and a Tesla and gives this reason for not driving the Tesla this past week: “I have free supercharging, and I still left the Tesla at home for this holiday to get family out of the city. Where I am staying, there is no supercharger within 40 miles from our vacation spot. Nor is there a plug I can get to overnight. So I am supposed to plan an 80-mile trip to recharge my car during the week with family?”
S.B. explained how the RAV4 Prime fits into her household by posting this: “My husband drives a model 3 and I have a RAV4 Prime. The combination of these two vehicles is perfect for us. We wanted a larger, more rugged family vehicle that we could road trip in. The Model 3 is perfect for him for a commuter/ smaller road trip vehicle.”
The Toyota RAV4 Prime is a unique vehicle in the market today. It has a projected maintenance and repair cost that rivals the Tesla Model Y. It’s cost for energy is is comparable, and the RAV4 line is a perennial IIHS Top Safety Pick. Unlike Tesla’s models, it is not as sexy, but has a long legacy of being among the most reliable vehicles one can buy. For this vehicle tester, the unstated reason why so many RAV4 Prime buyers are also Tesla owners is that the RAV4 Prime is an electric vehicle. It always has the electric starting torque that makes EVs so much fun to drive. It always regenerates power when braking. And in a typical commute, it only uses electrons. Unlike battery-only purists, some Tesla owners are perfectly happy to take a long trip in a roomy five-passenger all-wheel drive SUV that gets 94 MPGe.
John Goreham is a long-time New England Motor Press Association member and recovering engineer. Following his engineering program, John also completed a marketing program at Northeastern University and worked with automotive component manufacturers. In addition to Torque News, John's work has appeared in print in dozens of American newspapers and he provides reviews to many vehicle shopping sites. You can follow John on Twitter, and view his credentials at Linkedin
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Comments
The RAV4 Prime is a better
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In reply to It's a Toyota. Need I say by Cika Rizo (not verified)
The RAV4 Prime is a better vehicle than the Tesla Model Y in many ways. The Tesla is a little faster, may handle a little better, and has better software, but that's it. If you want a reliable vehicle and great dealer service, Toyota and Lexus have it all over Tesla. The RAV4 Prime is more than an appliance. It's quicker and handles better than many cars that were considered sports cars a couple decades ago. People who have tested it are surprised that an SUV with that nice a ride handles so well. That's also the surprise I got when I test drove the 2020 Lexus ES 350 I now own. Toyota's new TNGA platform is noticeably better than the previous one. By the way, the Model Y has a lousy, noisy ride. That's the price one must pay for sharper handling and inadequate noise insulation.
While there may be Tesla to
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While there may be Tesla to Toyota converts and while I understand not all like Tesla, it is the best EV and way better than any EV competition. With range not really even an issue with 400mi range cars and 320mi range 3 and Y, the range is not a valid point. They also have excellent charging infrastructure. I've taken trips across 4 states with 0 issues.
This whole article felt like an uneasy paid advert by a threatened Toyota looking to dissuade people with misinformation towards their PHEV. While the Rav4 is a great vehicle on it's own, it is no match for a Tesla in terms of pretty much everything starting with the uber cool factor.
Folks. Outlander PHEV. Has
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Folks. Outlander PHEV. Has everything you need. Why go for RAV4 and overpay.. short trips are the worst so you got the battery. Long trips I get 36 mpg not sure how the heck they come up with 25, never saw that even in winter. And it is a proven vehicle in EU and US..
don’t get the stupid parking sensors, those are after marked and faulty.
The Outlander PHEV is a
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In reply to Folks. Outlander PHEV. Has by Ozan (not verified)
The Outlander PHEV is a vehicle I quite liked when I tested it. I've had it twice for week-long stretches and also have driven it at winter testing events. Mitsubishi is planning an upgrade for the coming months and a new generation within a year. I will be very interested in those changes. I'm one of the few fans of Mitsubishi in the auto writing world and my first new vehicle was a Mitsubishi (Mighty Max). There are a few reasons I like the RAV4 Prime a lot more. The RAV4 Prime has a spare tire, which is important to me. The RAV4 Prime is dramatically quicker, particularly in Auto/Sport modes. I also like the Toyota transmission and heat pump HVAC. Finally, for me, Toyota is a brand I trust to build a more reliable vehicle. The two years of included maintenance for the RAV4 Prime may not add up to a lot of money, but I do like included maintenance (as my last article proves). I do like Mitsubishi's warranty better. In the next year, Kia, Hyundai, Ford, and others will introduce crossover PHEVs. The market is going to expand quite a bit. Thanks for your comments!
Very disappointed that you
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Very disappointed that you would post an article from someone who has a conflict of interest in his marketing and writing for ICE cars.
The so called people he interviewed sounded like something Ford was just saying.
You have lost all credibility posting an unvetted article from an ICE company
Hi JB. Sorry you didn't like
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In reply to Very disappointed that you by Jb (not verified)
Hi JB. Sorry you didn't like the article. I'm one of the longest-running authors here at TN, and I'm an associate editor. My brief bio is at the bottom of the story, and it includes a link to my full credentials and my entire work history. Unlike many writers in our industry, I have never been employed by, nor have I consulted for, any automaker. In my career, I have never cashed a paycheck from any automaker. Unlike some EV-Advocacy publications with a direct financial interest tied to an automaker, Torque News has no such connections. My personal interest in green vehicles began in the late 1980s. In 1990 I was part of an academic team that built a solar-electric vehicle. My role was that of battery thermal control engineer. I have worked with semiconductor manufacturers serving the auto industry. But that was before the modern era of EVs. You should scan our Tesla and other green vehicle content. One unusual aspect of Torque News is that we offer a full range of green vehicle stories, with the knowledge that some of the content will not be popular with some EV fans, despite it being true or having honest opinions based on our experiences. We have counted among our staff an engineer who worked at Tesla in drive system engineering from 2015 through 2018. He was a contributor here just before joining Tesla. I hope you find some content you like here, maybe by one of our other green-vehicle writers. Cheers,
Done with torque news. John
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Done with torque news. John Gordon is a propaganda writer for legacy automakers. This article skews the facts which are clearly poorly understood by John. The individual who complained about an 80-mile round trip to charge his vehicle neglected to understand that a simple plug in the wall can be used to charge overnight and can put most of the mileage and charge back into his battery. Charging problem? Only in the mind of propaganda writers.
We PHEV fans won't miss you.
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In reply to Done with torque news. John by Ronald Pfeiffer (not verified)
We PHEV fans won't miss you. The truth isn't propaganda. PHEV's are simply the most versatile vehicles on the road and the RAV4 Prime is the best PHEV on the market. It will be topped in the near future by none other than Toyota. Those of us who prefer PHEV's do so because the current EV battery is too expensive, too heavy, takes too long to recharge, and lacks range. Despite all that 'dead weight' being carried around by the RAV4 Prime (AWD is standard) when that weight is inactive, it is still 150 pounds lighter than the Tesla Model Y AWD, has double the range, and can ignore charging stations. It's likely to be very reliable and has plenty of standard features - more than enough for most of us. It's no wonder why so many people want the RAV4 Prime. Toyota needs to get some serious production out of those 3 battery deals made last year.
Towing is a problem with EVs.
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Towing is a problem with EVs. Tesla should address this, and it has in Europe.
Range is the second problem. Actual range of an EV is 80% of the nominal range. And it fits down from there.
Waiting 30 min to charge your car is a headache and a lot of wasted time.
Having said all that, Toyota's Hybrid miniature SUV is not worth the money. Yes there are some folks that don't like the down side of EVs and they make their choices. They have their reasons.
Though when you consider that ICE vehicles will not be allowed in 2030-2040 in many states. Their residual value will be nothing. Finding replacement parts will become challenging. Investing in an ICE vehicle in the next 10 years is just throwing money away.
I wanted a RAV4 Prime, but
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I wanted a RAV4 Prime, but due to the shortage, decided on a 2020 Lexus ES 350. I'm hoping Toyota will expand the Prime family by 2024 to include the Lexus ES, which would have better specs than the RAV4 Prime and be quieter. I'll still want a RAV4 Prime if no midsize Prime sedan is in the works by 2024.
I have no interest in EV's with the current expensive, heavy, slow-charging, short-range battery. When solid-state batteries are available at reasonable cost, that's when my interest will shift from PHEV's to EV's. There would have to be enough conveniently located charging stations capable of recharging them within 10 minutes, of course. I wouldn't want having to wait in line for a plug to be a common occurrence on road trips. That would never be a problem with a PHEV as long as gas stations are around.
Who writes this drivel?
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Who writes this drivel?
I love how the writer is
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I love how the writer is obligatorily lying. "Unlimited Range"...as long as you put gas in it or charge...just like any other vehicle. Electric or ICE. Come on bro, I wanted to see factual info on Tesla owners trading in their vehicles for this hunk of crap. The Toyota still require a ridiculous amount of maintenance (huge sums of money). Batteries are known to fail more often in hybridization. Do some more research. Even the PM of Japan said toyota needs to quit bullshitting (not a direct quote, but pretty accurate)
You may enjoy our story
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In reply to I love how the writer is by Crispin (not verified)
You may enjoy our story comparing the maintenance costs of the RAV4 Prime to the Model Y. By our analysis, the two are nearly the same after five years. Consumer Reports did a similar analysis and found the RAV4 Prime had a slight edge. That story includes details of the Tesla Model Y's maintenance schedule and a link to the manual. The maintenance costs of the RAV4 Prime for the first two years of ownership are zero since all maintenance is included during that period. Tesla offers no included maintenance. Maybe you could list some of the expensive maintenance items you expect for the RAV4 Prime in the comments? You can cut and paste this link if you are interested: https://www.torquenews.com/1083/toyota-rav4-prime-vs-tesla-model-y-maintenance-cost-analysis-surprising-outcome
The most important thing when
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The most important thing when selecting an EV is to find one that goes twice as far as your daily commute. If you travel on a long trip you can always rent a Prius. One vehicle of each is really great.
My 9yo Nissan Leaf had a range of 75 miles and my commute was a tad less than 30 miles. I still have 60 miles of range left. Best car I ever owned. Tough car too, 9 years of potholes and railroad tracks and busted water mains and road work. Hardly a single mile of easy going open road.
Toyota said their build 500
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Toyota said their build 500 for the u.s. market.
More like a green wash of the ice variants.
We're not sure we understand
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In reply to Toyota said their build 500 by Null (not verified)
We're not sure we understand your comment, Null. Toyota delivered 960 RAV4 Primes in the U.S. market in its first three months of sales. We reported on that here in nearly October. That rate of delivery was significantly higher than the Tesla Model 3, X, or S in their first quarter of sales and among the highest-volume electrified vehicles in terms of initial sales in automotive history. We will follow up with Toyota after this quarter ends and update the sales figures. Toyota actually said that it planned an initial model year volume of 5,000 units and was planning a delivery rate of about 20,000 for the second. That would make the RAV4 Prime the third-highest-volume AWD green crossover for sale in America, behind the RAV4 Hybrid and Model Y (Assuming they both maintain their rate of sales).
Do you research. PHEV are
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Do you research. PHEV are even worse polluters than gas vehicles. The engines never get hot enough to be efficient. I have a tesla and a backup gas car for long road trips especially in winter if/when I need it. I drive my Tesla %99 of the time. Camry basically sits in driveway for kids if they ever go out.
Although I can't agree with
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In reply to Do you research. PHEV are by Daja (not verified)
Although I can't agree with your statement that hybrids, particularly ones that can travel for 42 miles on electricity alone are "worse polluters than gas vehicles," It is nice to have yet another Tesla owner who also owns a Toyota add a comment here. Thank you for taking time to post.
Nice opinions all but while I
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Nice opinions all but while I’d love to join the EV owners club it’s too much of a compromise. In 4-5 years your points will be moot with the introduction of solid state batteries, ranges of 450 miles and 10 minute charging. Then there will be a long stretch getting the electric grid on full renewal energy, with those same batteries storing the wind and solar energy, which will likely be a very long term solution. Until then I won’t invest in either unfortunately.
This car has a Continuous
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This car has a Continuous Variable Transmission. This is a notoriously bad transmission that will not last as long as a regular automatic transmission. It might have been a decent compromise lase century, but with 10 speed automatic transmissions available, it is absolutely a really bad choice.
The transmission in the RAV4
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In reply to This car has a Continuous by Peter Maxwell (not verified)
The transmission in the RAV4 Prime is unique to Toyota. No other brand uses one like it. However, Toyota does use this type of transmission in other vehicles such as the top-selling RAV4 Hybrid, Prius Prime, and Prius hybrid. The Prius hybrid using this transmission was recently named the single most reliable vehicle by Consumer Reports. We don't disagree with you that in general belt-driven CVTs have been troublesome for other brands, the electronic transmission in the RAV4 Prime and other Toyota models has proven to be one of the most reliable in the industry. It has decades of high-volume sales in multiple vehicles as proof of its durability.